Kevin McCarthy served as the 55th Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, beginning in January of 2023. He ascended to the speaker’s gavel on the 15th ballot, the longest multi-ballot speaker vote since 1895. His accomplishments during his 269 day tenure included a deal with President Biden regarding the debt-ceiling. The Bakersfield native’s House leadership came to an end when eight Republican representatives successfully vacated the speakership after McCarthy shepherded a bill to continue funding for the government. McCarthy spoke with The HPR about the state of Congress, the 2024 election, and his reflections on his political career spanning three decades.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
The Harvard Political Review: Speaker Johnson released his plan for the aid packages on Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. There’s been Republican pushback, with members opposing the package and multiple pushing forth a motion to vacate. If Mike Johnson were to call and ask you for your advice, what would you tell him?
Kevin McCarthy: It’s a hard job. The first thing you have to do is never govern in the fear of motion to vacate. Just do what you think is right. You have to understand the power of the speakership. I learned this studying different speakers. I learned one thing watching Newt Gingrich as speaker with a Republican majority and Bill Clinton as a Democrat president: If you’re a speaker, you should negotiate directly with the President. You will get a much better agreement.
The biggest issue of the day is going to be the border. He is not going to get a deal or an agreement through Hakeem or Schumer on the border. If he sat down with the president negotiating on the border with Ukraine, he would get an agreement, which all sides would think is fair and able to support.
After the attacks on Israel on October 7, Congress should have passed the aid bill without having a pay for, it sent the wrong message around the world and as a result, it didn’t get done. Now we’re six months into it, you had Iran attacking, for the first time in history, Israel with weapons directly. I would have moved that out. I would have gone directly to the White House, sat down with the president and said, “We can do Ukraine, but we can also do the border of America.” I think Republicans and Democrats would have seen the political benefits of such a bill and the legislation would have passed.
HPR: One of your goals as the speaker was to make the Republican party look less like the most restrictive country club and look more like America. Are you concerned that the chaos going on in the House makes it difficult to achieve this goal, that it repels talented individuals from having a desire to pursue higher office?
KM: Anytime anybody sees chaos like that they think Congress can’t be productive. When I look at expanding the party, I talk about giving opportunities to places that Republicans don’t think we can win. The numbers that President Trump is getting among Black Americans, Hispanic Americans, a lot of people are in shock. There are districts where Republicans won’t even participate because they think they can’t win. I always believe, go to a district and get somebody who lives in that district who represents that district and help them. Never think, “Oh, it’s too hard to win.”
When I took over, no one would have thought we could win five seats in California. When I became the Minority Leader, Nancy Pelosi came speaker. When [I] became speaker, we won by five seats. It was California that made the Republicans the majority. Nancy [Pelosi] lost the majority in our home state. But we were able to do it through Young Kim, Michelle Steele, John Duarte, Mike Garcia.
I truly believe in the message and the principles of the Republican Party. They began with our first president, Abraham Lincoln, and the struggles related to slavery — that foundation is tremendously strong. You shouldn’t give up on the idea of helping people in areas that you don’t think we could win.
Think about Juan Ciscomani in Arizona who immigrated to America at age 11. His father drove a bus for 30 years, he won in a competitive district. In the meantime, state Republicans lost the governorship, lieutenant governor, attorney general, the Senate, two Senate seats, we picked seats up. I think the quality of the candidate matters. It doesn’t come down to the color of the skin or the gender, it comes down to the quality of the candidate.
HPR: How do you feel about the Republican Party’s prospects, whether in the House, Senate, or presidency? Where do you think the Republican Party is doing well and what do you think will be a challenge?
KM: I think Republicans are doing really well. Time is everything in politics; you could be the very best candidate and you’re in the wrong time, you’re not going to win. I think the Senate has a unique map that benefits Republicans. I think, you know, they’re gonna go into Montana, Ohio, West Virginia. Look at Maryland with Larry Hogan, he changes the dynamic there. Sherrod Brown, who’s won Ohio multiple times in a Republican state, I just think it’s going to be very difficult for him to get this. So I think Republicans win.
In a presidential year, running for reelection is a report card on the incumbent. At the last election, Biden only won by 48,918 votes. His favorability rating at the time was plus 10, now it’s minus 20. I think the advantage goes to President Trump.
Now in the House. I think the Republicans pick up seats because it comes to redistricting. If you look just at sheer numbers and look at the generic polling and look at the swing states, it looks like Republicans can win. The chaos and their fundraising for Republicans in the House, they can hurt themselves and lose — it’s going to be competitive. But if you look at just the timing and the data, this is a window that if done correctly, Republicans can pick up more seats.
HPR: There are reports that you are working behind the scenes to primary and remove the eight Republican lawmakers, who you refer to as the “Gaetz Eight,” that were responsible for your ouster as speaker. Can you explain why?
KM: When Republicans have the majority, look at what we accomplished in the nine months I was speaker when we stuck together as a party. The border bill, energy bill, parents’ bill of rights all passed. We had a debt ceiling and welfare reform bill that passed the largest savings of more than $2 trillion. You got the two 20 billion pulled from IRS auditing, all these big successes. What was the rationale for these eight to join all the Democrats?
When you look at Matt Gaetz, It was because of his ethics complaint and the allegation that he paid a 17 year old for sex. He wanted me to stop an ethics complaint? I was willing to risk the job not to do it.
I just think it goes into question what has happened since that time period: Has the country been more productive? Has the party been more successful? Have they been able to solve the problems? No, because they looked out for themselves.
Now look at their districts: Are they doing what they said they would say to their constituents? It really comes down to the fundamental points, especially when you’re looking within a primary. If eight are going to join all the Democrats, is that what you said in your primary? You’re going to do the work when you’re going to represent a party in that run for Congress? I don’t believe so. I think they need to be held accountable.
HPR: Does this stop at the end of the 2024 election cycle? The eight, particularly Matt Gaetz and Nancy Mace, are seen as young figures with futures in other offices or in House leadership. Are these individuals unfit for the House or would you commit to supporting candidates against them in other elections as well?
KM: I’ve moved on in my life. It’s not my decision. Their districts will decide that for them. When it comes to Matt Gaetz, it’s not about whether he can run for another office; the difference will be whether he’s in jail or not with the challenges of what he has. Those who have been associated with him and the allegations, having sexual relations with a 17 year old, are already serving in prison.
Nancy Mace, there’s no way she would ever get elected to leadership or anything, I think if you talk to any member of Congress I don’t know where she would find a second vote for her.
But their district will decide whether they’re the best representation or not definitely. That’s not something I deal with.
HPR: What’s next for Kevin McCarthy? There’s been talk about a potential position in the Trump administration. Do you have any comments?
KM: I always think you want the best people to serve in office, and that may be the administration of somebody else. If there’s something I can help our country do, I’m always going to do it. Because you want the best people out there. I’ve always said when I ran that that wasn’t going to be my final job.
I like participating in business. That’s what my degrees are in. If there’s a way I can help, I’m always going to be involved in helping Republicans win. I want conservatives who are willing to govern. I want to find good people. I want to help others get involved. It’s how I participate. I’m more than willing to help.
HPR: In 1984, you were a 19 year old working at a deli shop you opened after you won the lottery. I’m not sure you would’ve imagined becoming a history-making speaker of the House. What advice would you give to the young adults hoping to serve America?
KM: The great thing about America, it’s made up of the people, by the people, for the people.
Just because you don’t win the first time, just because you don’t give up. Look at the challenges of Lincoln, he lost the statehouse race, served only one term in Congress, he was denied the Senate twice, and then denied the vice president. Then he gets elected president. I think it’s the process — you don’t give up.
I may not be in Congress today, but I’m not giving up. I think there’ll be another place where I’m serving in some capacity to help our country. That may be still recruiting and helping people run or maybe I serve an administration. Maybe I will do something else, but I’m going to participate. Because I think it’s the responsibility of every citizen to make sure our country does better.
